2/22/2007
The meaning of life.
American Soldier says,
A U.S. soldier has been sentenced to 100 years in prison after pleading guilty to raping and killing a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and killing three members of her family, The Associated Press reports.
11:00pm EST 2/22/07
This does not degrade what harm was brought upon this person or her family. The fact remains that a very bad thing occurred and someone was to blame. This soldier did a very bad thing and he was expected to pay for this. So he was convicted and sentence to 100 years. A time that he will most likely spend in a cell reflecting on all that he has done wrong. They might as well plugged his veins with a toxin and put him asleep. His life and the fateful decision he made is essentially gone now.
The crime that he was convicted for was severe and it’s really sad, I digress for repeating this plain fact but, 100 years? What does it really mean to be sentence to 100 years in federal prison?
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My son was just sentenced to two life terms, one without the possibliity of parole this week. I think the sentence is a gut reaction from jurors and the legislators who write the laws to try and remove that person from humanity without the onus of the death penalty resting on their heads. I agree that punishment is often needed, where the evidence is clear and convincing that a heinous crime has been committed, but oftentimes there are circumstances and details that never reach a juries ears the mitigate much of the idea that something beyond the kin has occurred.
The only thing we have in our favor, is that the time he spent in jail this past year, a total of 378 days, can be deducted against his sentence. So 378 days before he appears ready to die they will release him on one charge, but on the other he stays in prison forever. Explain the logic of that to his mother and I.
Our son was innocent and convicted. I know everyone says that but it is true more times than people believe. Why else are the innocence projects getting new trials with acquittals for so many people.
We send the young men into an unimagineable horror (and I support the President in this war) and expect them to be pristine and untouched by what they see and do. I believe that action alone calls for immense levels of clemency and consideration when determining a sentence. He deserves better from the country which claimed him to be a hero and protector of our way of life.
Don’t believe everything you read in the papers my friends. It is often wrong, misleading and sometimes deliberately false to achieve specific goals of those who hate this country.
Well, what does it mean to be sentenced to 100 years and released after 10 years? Because this is what is going to happen. The sentenced soldier pointed out the soldier who “did the work”. In that way he is going to be released after 10 years. So that is what it means to be sentenced to 100 years in this case.
I am against death penalty. And being sentenced to 100 years? In this case it just sounds like fine retorics. Soldiers are victims of this war. Prosecute the ones that illegaly started the war. Then 100 years would perhaps seem to be more fit.
Jani, Sweden
Prosecute the ones that illegaly started the war.
You mean the mullahs, clerics and ‘leaders’ of the Islamic Extremists that support and fund Islamic Terrorists don’t you?
No, Jpck20. I mean the ones that are actually making the world unsafer - the current US administration. Islamic terrorism became a worldwide phenomenon due to some mistakes made by the Bush administration.
The question is, has global terrorism increased or decreased as a threat due these mistakes? The answer is obvious.
Jani, Sweden
Jani…a tad delusional are we? Muslims (along with most religious affiliations) have long been barbarians and lunatics. The only reason Sweden hasn’t seen a 9-11, is because you are incredibly easy targets, pacifists, and protected (like most) by the USA. You know better then I…if the ragheads were seriously infiltrating your country…we’d be the first you’d beseech for assistance. So stop the foolish rhetoric and return to milking your cows.
What these soldiers did was horrendous…even given the aberrations of war. The punishment does not fit. Each should be executed by his peers. But only if all the evidence overwhelmingly shows their guilt.
For those expertly killing the enemy…I send a thousand accolades.
Be safe…and continue to spill their blood upon the graves of their miserable ancestors and the seed of their wretched existence.
This young soldier is a victim of this war as much as anyone. What happened to the family if horrifying but we are all old enough and well informed enough to know that things like this happen in war. We need to avoid such things by avoidiing war except when all parties agree that all other alternatives have been exhausted. I’m wondering when some of the people who did the cheerleading for this war will be tried, too.
Robert. Still, the question is: has global terrorism increased or decreased as a threat due the existence of the Bush administration? And the answer is still obvious.
Jani, Sweden.
heh. getting sentenced to 100 years in prison? anywhere else, that means you’re there till you die. In America, that means you get off in 10 years for good behaviour.
I am amazed at how people can look at something and get it so mixed up that it makes me wonder if these individuals are rational human beings.
It seems that there is this common complaint that George W. didn’t look at all the options before he declared war on Terrorism. Don’t forget, that is what this war is all about; Terrorism. It is against a common foe of all that is non-Islamic, and that includes people both in this country and those that are far away, such as Sweden.
My question is, what options did George W. miss? Another chance at the UN? Another chance to talk pretty please, with sugar on top, Saddam, please stop butchering your people, please, with a cherry on top, stop supporting Al-Qaeda, and Please, Please, be a normal, rational, logical human being and do something with your nasty, inhuman WMD’s? Of course, nothing is said about the chippers he used on his own people.
It seems that there are a number of people who forget a basic fact of this War. We are fighting Islamic Terrorists who have only one goal in mind. They are willing, very willing, to die for that goal, and that is to convert the entire world to an Islamic world. My question, that is still waiting to be answered is, “How do you deal with Islamic Terrorists?”
If one studies history, the concept of Jihad is not something new in the Islamic World; it happens now and again. However, I don’t think that in times past, that there was such a willingness of the ignorant and the sheep to just accept such a conversion. Maybe, one of these days, when the Prince of Peace does show, we will no longer have to worry about such things, but now we all need to be thankful for the sheep dogs who protect the sheep (and others who put their heads in the sand) from the wolves who would dearly love to tear our throats out.
Oh yes, and Sorry AS. My thoughts on the 100 year prison term for that soldier is that I think political correctness had an impact on the length of the term.
Of course, after reading about the two border guards that were sentenced to prison for shooting a drug pusher and how the Government handled that case, I wonder if the soldier got a fair trial.
Well, David: how come the world opinion outside the USA feel that your country poses the greatest threat to international security with the current administration? Because they (outside your country) are stupid and dont understand what this is about?
It is still a fact that the Bush administration has formed their enemy into a larger entity. Without the violent spread of “freedom” to innocent civilians by these leaders the terrorists would not have been able to define a common goal and would not have gained such global support.
As the USA decided to attack Iraq international law was violated. So was the foundations of the UN (which I suppose you dont believe in). And so was the Geneva convention.
The above mentioned violations has lead to a severe and unstable situation in the whole Middle East region - a basis for extremism spread on a global scale.
The reason behind the escalation of violence and global terrorist retorics of uniting is a byproduct of the ideological ideas that your current leaders carry.
Do I have to mention the London bombings and the Madrid bombings?
Jani, Sweden
Jani you as well as other people around the world are always quick to blame “America” for world troubles. BUT, they’re almost ALWAYS the first to hold out their hand and beg for assistance FROM America when something goes wrong in their country. It always just amazes me, how you are all so quick to blame everything wrong in the world on the Americans.
i’ve been reading most of people comments and i get the sense that, this is way complicated than what we see.
Both sides is convinced in their thought and no power will sway it. The reality is, you can’t talk cheap with extremist and again you cant force them too.
our leaders have made mistakes in this encounter and our brothers and sisters are paying dear for it. Colin Powell said if we break it, we own it. I dont think we can own this. Whoever blame a soldier for this got some screws missing
Terri, it’s not about blaming America. I have been in your country several times and I like America and its people.
This is about blaming your current government on its irrational and destructive behaviour (which some people tend to take very personal). Because - this affects us too. The Bush Jr government has made the world unsafer due to their outrageous ideology.
Is it always about America helping and everybody else asking for help?
Dont think too much of the USA when you talk about Bush foreign policies. The ones that are in line of my fire are your current leaders. There is no help needed from your current government. They have proven their destructive road to “freedom”. We do not want it.
Enough blood has been spilled.
Jani, Sweden
I think it is important that we not generalize about any nationality, government, or most importantly terrorists and their motives. If we cannot take the time to truly understand that ethnic/nationalistic/religious hatred is irrational to begin with, without polarizing our stance against terrorism along political lines, then we are just feeding the conflict.
We cannot address unreasoning hatred with reason.
I’ve seen terrorism up close and personal and to try to make blanket statements about attributing terrorism to a particular political administration is a very stilted view of the world and the multiple conflicts we are enduring now. Let’s not dehumanize or vilify any one person or group in the name of “open-mindedness.” That kind of loathing would just be ironic. The statement that the world opinion outside the US is that our country poses the greatest threat to international security is unsupported and obviously politically biased.
Are we to believe that changing the administration alone will garner world opinion in our favor? Remove Bush and suddenly America is less hated by our enemies? I hear a lot of grandstanding from politicians on different sides, but I’m not hearing much in the way of substantial solutions. Maybe the first thing we need to do is stop blaming each other for terrorism and stop generalizing about America.
Obviously what Dean is saying is that we should’nt criticise or do anything about the fact that global insecurity HAS increased.
This topic is about criminals of war, let us stick to that.
It can not be politically biased to criticise a government (which country does’nt matter) that illegaly decides to attack another country. Furthermore, an attack that is builds upon on highly biased intelligence.
Such acts are severe acts of violation against international law. And whether you like it or not, your country has participated in the very construction of the same laws.
The Nurnberg Trials (concluding the second World War) was about exactly the same violations. The sentence for these German leaders was death.
At the very core of terrorism lies frustration, feelings of being humiliated, poverty and religious fanatism. In that order.
Are you suggesting that overwhelminig miltary force is going to deal with this fact?
It is obvious that military force is a highly ineffective tool as terrorists are hiding among civilians and use societies as their ground for recruiting, as their battlefield and as their target. Well then, smoke ‘em out of their caves.
Retorics of “evils” contradicting with “freedom fighters” (using overwhelming military force) does not decrease the threat of terrorism, and this is my point - it increases the insecurity specifically in the Middle East region as war itself increases the core of terrorism mentioned above.
If we can not criticise democratic countries that use such tactics on a global scale what point is there to have democracy? Criticising ourselves (as democratic countries) is the only way we can find better and more fruitful solutions to deal with terrorism.
Finally, let me make one thing clear. I do not mean to offend any of the US army soldiers. For criticising them of the war is the same as critising the American population for the war. And that is not now and will never be the case.
How was the attack on Iraq illegal? There were UN Security releases, that warned Iraq time after time about failure to abide by the UN Security Council rulings.
One, just one such ruling is Resolution 1441, which was passed in 2002, warning Iraq “Recalls, in the context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq, that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations. ”
Now, for me, serious consequences is not another UN resolution.
Earlier, you talked about the Geneva Convention. There needs to be several things brought up about this Convention. The first being, are terrorists eligible for the Convention? To have the Convention applied to you (of which terrorists have not been too inclined to do so) there are certain qualifications that need to be met. These are found in Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, and I have posted them below.
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
I will not talk about specifically targeting of civilians and children during this war.
Finally, there were a number of Senators, under the previous administration of President Bill Clinton who signed off on a bill encouraging the President to go to war with Iraq. They felt that Iraq would not follow UN Resolution 1194, and stronger action was needed. It was signed by 27 Senators from both parties.
So to blame George W for this is just a bit one sided.
Now, as to a bit of trivia. A major reason why Columbus “discovered” this new world was because of a Jihad that knocked out Constantinople from the trading route. Up until then, this city was part of a major trading route that allowed items from the East to get to the rest of Europe. When an Islamic Jihad conquered Constantinople, it removed a major trading port, and stopped the trade routes to Europe. Hence, to reopen the trade routes, Columbus (along with others) were trying to find another route to the Orient.
Jihad has been around a long time. It is only recently that there have been those who have tried to blame others for Islamic Jihad. Please remember, that Jihad is part of Islamic religious life. Matter of fact, it is required.
No, Jani. I was saying that I have seen from personal experience that global insecurity is extremely subjective. It has not increased. It has taken different forms, but your AWARENESS of it has increased. I have seen terrorism for decades and only now are people paying attention.
My other point was that your vitriol is simply spreading more intolerance of people with differing political affiliations. It’s simplistic.
Hatred is like a poisen once it gets in your soul. And it is easy to become the kind of person you hate. Debate the issues, not the people. Do not attack individuals for having a different opinion or belief. You’d be surprised how contempt for other people’s beliefs soon grows into prejudice.
I will skip the little history lesson. You are talking about a thing that can, and have been, told in more than countless ways.
Before showing you how the Iraq war is considered illegal and how earlier leaders have been prosecuted for the same kind of atrocities, let’s get something clear regarding your view of terrorists.
I agree, Jihad is part of Islamic religion. So what? Does this little “knowledge” remove terrorism?
Isn’t war about knowing your enemy? As I said earlier; at the very core of terrorism lies frustration, feelings of being humiliated, poverty and religious fanatism. You can’t bomb those things away. Is that so hard to understand?
I you are to draw Jihad as the core problem behind global insecurity you are talking about more than billion people who carry the meaning of Jihad in different ways. You’ll need a genocide to remove Jihad my friend. So let’s stick to the roots of terrorism.
Geneva Conventions and UN charters and international law. We can keep presenting and arguing forever, Yes, it’s a complex issue. Start by looking back on the world opinion and how the world argued against the USA invasion of Iraq which in fact a great majority of the world did. Are they all stupid? Does’nt anybody understand?
Your ex-defence secretary’s (Rumsfeld) advisor was clear on the illegal act behind attacking Iraq: “international law … would have required us to leave Saddam Hussein alone” (nov 2003). So, laws where broken. Furthermore, on the night bombing began, in March, Mr Bush reiterated America’s “sovereign authority to use force” to defeat the threat from Baghdad. I hope you get my point.
Article 51, UN charter: “Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.”
Your current president developed his own doctrine of “preventive war”. This very concept is illegal under section 51.
Under the standards of the Nuremberg trials, the war in Iraq is considered a crime against peace. So, If the regime engages in war crimes, the architects of the war are considered war criminals.
Therefore Bush and his entourage are war criminals under international law.
Oh, and for reference, Jani, I served with the United Nations International Police to put an end to ethnic cleansing, mass genocide, and to rebuild countries afflicted with war. I am not a casual observer.
So do not be so quick to assume that I advocate “doing nothing.” I’ve done more than most people ever will in their entire lives.
I have put my life on the line to make this world more secure, and was proud to do it.
Don’t be so judgmental of the people you do not know. That’s all I am saying.
Dean, my aim is not to be liked. My aim is to get your attention, which I have.
It’s an interesting topic to discuss and it involves a lot of feelings.
Jani,
You haven’t gotten many of our attention any more than the leftist mouthpieces in the United States have gotten our attention. You really do need a history lesson if you believe that the woes with Islamic terrorism began with the Bush Administration. The path to 9/11 started a long time ago with a precipitous withdrawal and abandoment of South Vietnam, leading to the Iran hostage crisis and one after another terrorist actions ever since. It went on far too long and was ignored by conservatives and liberals alike until terrorists flew planes full of innocent people into buildings full of innocent people and FINALLY we struck back. And the whole world CHEERED at first. Whatever it takes, people said on the street. But welcome to short attention span theater. It has just gone on too long and the litany of “we will never win” has become so ingrained to a nation who would have once done anything to make sure this would never happen again. It is more than an interesting topic, Jani, it is a life and death situation which, unfortunately, people like you will never understand. I suggest you read Daniel Pipes, Mark Steyn, Wafaa Sultan, Walid Shoebat. Did you read Oriana Fallaci? How about Ayaan Hirshi Ali? Londonistan? Infidel? Anything, anything? Yes, the Mayor of London has become a great appeaser of Islamics. And THAT Jani, spells out why they are doomed, as is most of Europe. You reduce the fight in Iraq to a political notion and there is the problem. It has never been about politics, but that has somewhat been lost on people like you.
The war in Iraq is still illegal. This has been my point since I started this discussion and none of you have successed in confonting this fact.
It suffices to say that your ex-defence secretary’s (Rumsfeld) advisor was clear on the illegal act behind attacking Iraq: “international law … would have required us to leave Saddam Hussein alone” (nov 2003) and that your current president developed his own doctrine of “preventive war”, which also is illegal under international law.
Your president also made it clear that USA was going to attack Iraq on the “sovereign authority to use force” (march 2003). If you dont hear me, listen to your government.
The lack of respect for international law that your current leaders hold is just something to be very concerned of. Do you know that we have more than 20,000 refugees from Iraq in Sweden because of the invasion of Iraq? No? Well, now you do.
It is transparently laughable that the U.S. intervened to bring human rights to Iraq. America can not win this war under its current leadership.
And as long as you keep answering I have your attention and you have mine. I find your views very interesting.
Jani, Sweden
Dean, I dont really have to say this but I have a masters degree in Peace and Conflict Reasearch at the oldest university in Scandinavia (founded 1477).
So I, just as you, know what I’m talking about.
It just very worrisome to see the ideoligical aspects of this conflict. Ideologies feed conflicts they do not stop them.
Jani… How do you respond to International Terrorism?
How do you respond to those who killed Theo Van Gogh and many others.
Yes, to know our enemy is extremely important. Sun Tzu taught that one very well.
I brought up the Geneva Convention which you mentioned, and you skipped over my points. It is one thing to bring up such Conventions, but then one needs to take time to look at them and read them. You failed to answer my question, “Are Islamic terrorists covered under the Geneva Convention?” If you look a bit closer, you will also see where Civilian casualties are also discussed in the Conventiion.
However, I don’t think that you understand the enemy. The UN Security Council repeatedly issued warnings to Iraq and Iraq repeatedly ignored them. Finally, as I stated earlier (and you ignored) the UN stated their would be severe consequences to Iraq if they continued to ignore the resolutions. Maybe your take on severe consequences were more UN resolutions.
Again, my question is, “How do you handle Islamic Terrorism?”
The terrorists have very adequately shown what they do with people of all ages and sexes (and nationalities) who disagree with them. Do remember, however, this is a religious war. Their goal is to convert the entire world; and they will start with reestablishing the Caliphate. The freedoms you experience, limited as they are, are being threatened.
Because many in Europe fail to realize the severity of the problem, there have been many who have written Europe off as it continues to fall under the control of Islam. Hope you enjoy liiving under Sharia law.
Jani…”Peace & Conflict Research” speaks volumes about you and your appeasement mentality. How much good did all this research do during ww1 and 2? You pacifists are an odd breed. When was the last time you had a friend or family member beheaded because of a warped ideology? I suggest you visit http://www.terroristmedia.com/nukem/ccproduct.php?productid=00007
and realistically weigh the intent of these savages. Or maybe given your expertise in conflict resolution you can bring them to the bargaining table. Wake up, Jani! Legal war or not…Saddam was WMD enough for me, and we now have a foothold in one of the most volatile places on earth. If Iran decides to send some nuclear mushrooms your way…we will be there to intervene. If you have a better way of addressing this madness…offer it up. Otherwise…I suggest you return to those tasty meatballs you are renowned for.
David, you are right about the Geneva Convention. I hope that satisfies your question. But the war is still illegal though. (This topic is or was about criminals of war). I have read what you have said closely.
I can not simply answer a question on how to handle Islamic Terrorism as it covers dimensions that cross over multiple research areas. However, I can tell you this much - the way USA is handling the issue of terrorism simply ignores the foundations of terrorism. What I have said is not just simple guessing. What I say is based on facts. So, please read what I am saying carefully.
First, terrorism is more than Islam. This can easily be checked out by searching on simple keywords on the Internet. What -exactly- are you attacking and where? (Please don’t just say “muslim terrorists).
Second, I don’t see the security situation increasing as intended by your government. Rather, it seems to encourage more terrorism. This can also be checked out in various reports (for instance; USA State Department releases). One example; in 2004 terrorist attacks more than tripled worldwide if you compare to 2003. It has not decreased. Why?
Third, as you mentioned David, this conflict has religious dimensions. Specifically, it has two ideologies, a neo-conservative (christian) ideology that is acting in the very birth place of Islam - the Middle East, and a fundamentalist muslim ideology aiming at Western societies. If you accept that your government has an ideology, then you know that there is an essential ideological dimension in this conflict. Now, wars based on ideologies simply are zero-sum games which in this case means that you have to wipe clean terrorists worldwide - exactly how is that going decrease terrorism?
Fourth, we both know that not all people fear terrorism and Islam. I fear neither. I dont see the Western societies falling on their knee before Imam’s. But you see this as a problem. So its your personal opinion. If you were right all would have feared Islam and terrorists. How do we define an enemy without killing innocent people without nourishing the base of recruitment for terrorists?
There are a lot of questions and there are no simple answers. If you can answer the above I will be able to answer how terrorism can be stopped.
Jani
Ok, Robert!
Jani,
Neo-conservatism aside where is the birthplace of Christianity? Isn’t it the the Middle east? I am not a researcher or a scholar in political science but I am Christian and a military wife. I believe that whether an Iraqi is Muslim or a minority Christian they have a right to understand that there are MANY parts of the world that do not live in suppresion and in utter poverty. My husband made a difference there no matter if SOME find it illegal. Do you know that there are 150,000 to 200,000 Iraqis here in the U.S.? We as Americans carry our burdens and those of MANY others too. What does Sweden do? You seem to feel very uncomfortable with the fact that there are 20,000 Iraqi refugees there. Why are you? How does it impact you? I am sure that some of my taxes cover ours. That is what our country was founded on, the mixing of all races and religions. Our country has always helped other countries as well. If the war is so illegal, why are so many other countries represented, no matter how small, with forces in Iraq? Have you looked into the number of other countries represented there? In plain terms I believe the right thing was done even if not for all of the right reasons for your sensibilities.
I respectfully submit this and hope for your return post.
Jodi Moore-Loers
Army/Nat’l Guard wife
Arizona
Jani, I don’t really have to say this, but…A master’s degree in Peace and Conflict Reasearch?
A degree? That’s your idea of “knowing” what you are talking about?
How sad.
You assume that other people are somehow less perceptive or less educated than you, so you do not have to consider their opinions as valid.
If you really knew what you were talking about, that would have been the last thing you told anyone to convince them that you knew anything. Pointing out your academic credentials broadcasts your lack of real experience.
For all your rhetoric, you are simply detracting from your own arguments. People are paying more attention to you than to your opinions. Being liked should be your last concern. No one cares anymore what you are saying. All their attention is on you as a character they read in a blog.
You talk about the “foundations of terrorism” as if it is a constant variable to be calculated by strategists. Oh, sophistry! I see no sense of true knowledge from you, only conjecture. A little humility on your part would have gained you much more credibility with this audience.
But did you ever really care if they listened to you? Or did you just want to see your own words in print? But maybe that’s what narcissism is all about - loving your own opinions to the exclusion of all others.
“Oh, and for reference, Jani, I served with the United Nations International Police to put an end to ethnic cleansing, mass genocide, and to rebuild countries afflicted with war”
What have you said in this discussion besides attacking me? One could have expected a little more in-depth discussion with a man like yourself, Dean.
You are really concerned about me it seems. Whatever you say Dean this discussion has been moving forward (if you hav’nt noticed).
So stay back or bring something to the discussion.
Jani
This soldier should be executed in my judgment. But, I really came here to cheer you all up!
I have come with good news of great joy for those who hear the ‘calling’
of this generation.
A new political party is being offered to the tens of millions of Americans who feel that the Republican party and the DemocRAT party have NOT led them to achieve what they really want our government to do for them.
They want their borders secured and their immigration laws ENFORCED NOW! They want tax reform-and they want it ASAP! They want much more efficient, innovative and effective SMALLER government that gives them more bang for their hard-earned buck. They want Senate rules that do not allow an up or down vote for all executive appointment to the federal judiciary changed to allow a constitutional up or down vote. They want their second amendment right to keep and BEAR arms VIGILANTLY protected! They believe America’s best and brightest days are YET to come! They yearn for REAL change that PRODUCES real results that truly satisfies their good desires for families, America’s future and their posterity. And, they want it all RIGHT NOW!
The new party is called the ‘New Republican Party’ and can be further studied at my website. This party is what we, and millions of others like us, have all been searching for…but it has never existed before…until NOW!
Jodi, first of all I must thank you for your thoughtful and fine reply. Second, I truly believe that all American (and those of the “Coalition of the Willing”) soldiers are really brave. I cannot even imagine how it must be to guard the streets of Baghdad under constant threat. You soldiers are heroes I don’t deny that. I truly believe that you need a cause for being there, there has to be a point.
I have nothing against Iraqis coming to Sweden; they are refugees of war and need support.
The war is fought in Iraq, which unfortunately is not the birthplace of Christianity. Iraq is surrounded by hostile states and the war seems to nourish terrorism in the whole region.
Fourth, I also believe that people should be aware of that there are alternatives to repression and cruel dictators. We simply differ in the view on how this can be accomplished. Most of the participants in this discussion agree that war is the way to freedom while I believe in open communication channels (which your government does not believe in, rather they exclude nations on the basis of evilness). So yes, I truly believe that Iraq could have been handled differently. This does not make me a pacifist.
Furthermore, I truly believe that Saddam could have been removed in many other ways. Your government knew at the beginning that there where no WMD’s, as did all UN and IAEA inspectors.
Although there was a “Coalition of the Willing”. I don’t deny this, Jodi. But the fact that the war is illegal and that the knowledge of the consequences of an illegal war in such a turbulent region where known before the invasion by a coalition greater than that of the US led coalition. These reports came from Peace & Conflict Research Institutions all over the world including the USA and from worldwide NGO:s such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Red Crescent, Oxfam and so on. It was well known that such an invasion could lead to increasing terrorism and a possible civil war, which is a definition that can almost be used now. The risk of terrorism spreading worldwide was also known (which happened to Madrid and London.
If we are to have laws we have to abide to them. The consequence of me violating the law and changing it after to suit me is just one step closer to anarchy. If laws are broken ones, they can be broken again. I just think that this is a very bad idea. One nation cannot have the sole rights to violate laws and conventions and charters on human rights. We have to be better than our common enemy.
The majority support for the war (we have to put some value on what people in general think) ended in mid-september 2003 and has steadily decreased. Today a majority is against the war. This has to mean something.
“Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me.”
“It is clear that we need to change our strategy in Iraq.” (George W. Bush)
Jani, you are obviously not speaking for the Kurds,who have resoundingly applauded our efforts. It is clear now,Iran has been supporting the effort to undermine our noble mission. And guess where we are? Right in their backyard. In times like these laws are insignificant. The enemy does not play by any set of rules…so they should not be afforded any considerations. Strategically, this conflict was a brilliant step toward neutralizing the real threat in Iran. War is always a horrific approach…but war has merit in that it brings balance to a world wrought with madmen, and retribution to those who do not value life. You…nor any ministers of appeasement can alter the tone of radical Islam. They are force fed contempt for freedom when they emerge from their mothers vile womb. I think of most religious ideologies as zombie manufacturers. Little or no independent thought. I also suspect we will soon witness many mushroom clouds blossoming around the world. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Especially, if they take out this religious infestation of human cockroaches.
What these soldiers did was a horrible thing. But, I cannot imagine the stress they were under when they committed these crimes. They most likely have seen a buddy KIA by the Iraqi’s. They are out in the 140 degree heat with 100 pounds of gear on. They wake up every morning not knowing if today is the day they will meet Jesus face to face.
Civilians who will never step foot in Iraq will never know what these men have been through in their young lives.
American Soldier - I just want to say “Thank you!” for the sacrifices you make for this wonderful country.
Dear A.S.,
I apologize to you for wasting space on your fabulous blog with my note to Jani. Obviously she and most of your readers are at an understanable impass. I took the bait. I failed. I am now going back to being a military wife who knows better than to engage with the clueless and misled. I guess I really feel that countries that won’t engage an international enemy head on really shouldn’t come to one of the most respected milblogs and show their utter ignorance for the subject of the United States and it’s FINE military men and women. I hope you and the rest of us are finished with Jani and her scholarly pacifism. I will not further engage her on you site.
Thank you for always giving us something to read and think about. I have bought the Matthew Currier Burden book, “The Blog of War’. It is amazing and I hope to pass it on soon so that non-military friends can gain a needed understanding of what you, my husband and all soldiers go through. My husband will go on his second overseas mission in March. This one takes him to Afghanistan. His last was to Iraq. If you have a minute send a prayer for safety his way. I will continue to do the same for you and your family. Thank you for all you have done and continue to do. Never stop writing.
Hi! In response to Jodi’s comment–what are the rules of posting comments on your site? Thanks!
Say what you want.
The American people no longer support this war.
They thank the troops, but damn the leaders who lied and got us involved in a war that was not necessary. Gerorge Bush is the most dispised President in at least one generation probably the worst ever.
Here’s a new friend for Jani!
Johnny…you speak for a segment of the American population that watches reruns of Star Trek, and idolizes people like Rosie O’Donnell and Babs. Those of us with some historical insight, know exactly why this war is being waged. We certainly do not need cowards like you undermining the efforts of our brave soldiers. Why don’t you and the Hollyweird bunch, put together a crack negotiating team and head to Iraq on one of your asinine peace missions. While your heads are being severed,give George Bush a call and tell him how much you despise him for this blatant act of murder. I know…it was Bush who brought down the WTC and Pentagon…right?
You are not an American, Johnny…you are a parasite who feeds off the efforts of genuine patriots. You and your kind…lack the grit and resolve keeping you safe. From my standpoint…you are the ones to be despised. You mean less to me then the dogs we are fighting abroad. At least in their narrow and distorted view they are committed to a mission…while you pacifist maggots seek purpose in division.
Jani-
The war was not at all “illegal”, I can show this with a variety of reasons. Here are a few:
1) Saddam was in the process of destroying not only the ecosystem of the Iraqi Marshes, but the entire Marsh Arab culture. This falls under the range of “genocide”, and is an accepted precondition for intervention.
2) Iraq’s status with the United States was not Peace, it was Cease Fire. Upon violation of that Cease Fire, status reverted to a state of war.
3) The Kurdish region of Iraq was de-facto independent, and in preventing Saddam’s efforts to subdue the Kurds, we were coming to the aid of an ally, a legitimate use of military power.
4) Iraq also willingly maintained a state of War with Israel- a fact which was so clear when Saddam shot missiles at Israeli civilians. It is legitimate for a nation to enter a war already existing, even if it hasn’t been directly attacked- I refer you to the decision on the part of Brazil to enter World War II, declaring war on Germany and Italy, or the decision by Turkey to enter into the war in Korea.
5) Saddam’s repression of the Shi’ites was carried out with government forces that were almost exclusively Sunni. This is evidence of an ethnic war, especially as the Sunni are a minority. Although the Shi’ia were almost powerless to protect themselves, the situation could be termed “war”, or even “genocide” justify external intervention.
These five examples are just what I can throw out quickly!
History shows us what happens when Genocide is not stopped by intervention. Darfur continues. And it will go on until the Arabs in the Sudan have killed them all, because no one wishes to stop it.
If not to protect the Weak from the Cruel, what else are soldiers for? Why else does Sweden even bother having an army? Do you really think Norway or Finland might invade? Protecting the Weak from the Cruel is the finest, most noble, most humanitarian duty any soldier could ever hope for. Do you know what kind of enemy we face there? They believe in murdering civilians as a strategy. Not an accident, or crime of war, but a strategy. They are the very symbol of cruelty to human beings. They are demonic.
The real question is not, Jani, why is the US in Iraq, it is why are the Swedes not? The Iraqi people need help- the world is taking it away.
Ben
[…] Original post by unknown […]
To all our soldiers who died and are serving, thank you for liberating me in Europe in 1945 and as a reminder of the human cost the following is self explanatory.
Poem by PFC Carl Dearborn (address unknown) of the 4th Marine Division which went over the Saipan beachhead should be cited and left for the historians to ponder. It is titled: I Died For You Today.
I died for you today on a far off Pacific Island.
If you are concerned, to say the least, I’ll tell you who I am…
I’m the soldier and the sailor - I’m the airman and Marine…
I’m the life blood of your nation - you sent me to this scene…
I’m the one who loads the Amtracks…I’m the pilot, just as well…
I’m the dedicated corpsman saving leathernecks who fell…
I’m the trooper of the airborne, I’m the Seabee with a trade…
I’m the wiry American medic dodging steel to give first aid…
I’m the tail gunner in the airplane, I’m the crew chief and the crew…
I’m the cannoneer and mortar man in the field defending you…
I’m the man of different races clinging to a rumbling tank…
I’m Catholic, Jew and Protestant, and I serve in every rank…
Call me Dominic, Smith or Kelly or pronounce my foreign name…
And regardless of my color - When I’m hurt, I bleed the same…
I’m Indian and I’m Mexican. I’m Polish, Dutch, Italian and Greek…
I’m every inch American and your freedom’s what I seek…
I’m the southern boy from Florida, I’m the northern lad from Maine…
I’ve toiled in Georgia’s orchards, and I’ve cut Montana’s grain…
I came from every walk of life - from mountains to the slums…
I’ve lived, by God, through dust and drought, and I’ve prayed aloud for rain.
I’ve known hardship and depression; still I’ve watched our country grow…
But when Uncle Sam came calling I was proud that I could go…
I’ve watched demonstrations and the people who protest…
And I said “Thank God for freedom!” - my country’s still the best…
So take your banners and your slogans. Raise your placards to the sky…
I’ll defend your right to do it… Though in doing it. I’ll die…
I’m your fathers - sons - and brothers…I’m the arm of Uncle Sam…
And I died for you today, my friend…On an Island called Saipan…